In this podcast episode, EWG President and co-Founder Ken Cook is joined by Hillary Peterson, the founder of True Botanicals, a skincare company offering products without problematic ingredients. The products are all EWG Verified®, meaning they’re free of EWG's chemicals of concern and meet EWG’s strictest standards for health.
Peterson is a cancer survivor who was motivated to start her company after listening to Cook speak on NPR about how chemicals in personal care products end up in the umbilical cord blood in pregnant people. She discusses her journey, influences, and what’s next in the world of non-toxic beauty products.
Disclaimer: This transcript was compiled using software and may include typographical errors.
Hillary: You know, as a company, we believe people are beautiful at every age, and that every age we want to look our best. And so, in one way, I would say we're leaders in helping people to look their best at any age, which means we're very focused on making products that work. So in a sense, you could call that anti-aging.
However, the term anti-aging has never resonated for me as a cancer survivor when aging is a privilege.
Ken: Oh, there you go.
Hi, it's Ken Cook, and I'm having another episode. This is a really good one because I'm joined by my dear friend, Hillary Peterson. Hillary is the founder of the clean and sustainable skincare brand, True Botanicals. Now, EWG has been involved in the personal care world, the clean beauty world for many years now, but Hillary, she truly is a pioneer in the field.
She's been working to bring a whole new set of standards to clean beauty for a long time. I've been friends with Hillary for quite a few years. We couldn't remember how many actually, and she's been a supporter of EWG and all the work we do here. So all of true botanicals products are EWG verified, which is no mean feat.
I think it was Shazi Visram who called the process “a huge pain in the ass.” I think the fact that our friendship survived the Verified process says a lot about our friendship. I'm excited to have you on the show, Hillary. I'm wearing one of your products today, in case you're wondering why I have this glow.
Hillary: I noticed it right away, Ken.
Ken: We have special effects on the lens here, and I go through prosthetics and makeup before I come on camera, of course. But in addition to that, today, I'm wearing True Botanicals Chabula Extreme Cream. Now, I need extreme treatments just generally, so I'm thrilled to have you on today, Hilary.
So you can tell me more about what this cream is doing and the story of how you became a founder of such a cutting edge brand.
Hillary: All right. Fantastic. Well, first of all, thanks so much for having me, Ken. It has been a wonderful, long journey. You've been a huge inspiration for me on my journey and a really important resource.
You know, I learned so much from the EWG at the start, and it's actually one of the main reasons I was inspired to start my company. It was the Skin Deep database and what I learned about the products that I was using. I had had thyroid cancer following that experience.
I wanted to live the healthiest possible life and I looked at food. I looked at meditation, exercise, you know, a lot of the things that people would typically consider. And I did not think about my personal care products until I heard you on NPR and you were talking about the Cord Blood study. It proved that what we were putting on our skin was going into our bodies.
And all the conventional manufacturers didn't want us to think that. And I certainly didn't think about it until I heard that episode. And then I really researched and it all made so much sense. And I thought, okay, well, that's not right. We deserve better. And that's what inspired me to start True Botanicals.
And, you know, in terms of my background, I came from a marketing background. I was an executive at Levi Strauss and Company, worked in the 501 jeans marketing group, women's jeans marketing group, and have always appreciated the opportunity to connect with consumers. I really believe a lot in connection and community.
I just thought, wow, what an incredible opportunity to build a community around clean beauty. And so, that's what I did over 10 years ago. And it's just been an incredible journey. We set out to prove that products that prioritize the health of people on the planet can be the most effective. And I really feel that we've done that, you know. Many, many people use our products because of the integrity.
Yeah. Many, many people use the products just because they're luxurious and they feel good and they work. And so I feel like, you know, while it's really important for me that we continue to educate our community around toxins in their everyday lives, at the same time, I'm just happy that we're offering something made with integrity that anybody could use, you know. Whether or not they're concerned about toxins in the environment and in their lives.
Ken: You know, it's interesting that you invoke the idea of community. I've been thinking about the environmental movement, the environmental community, a good deal in recent years, and how it's evolved. I think it used to be that you were an environmentalist if you were concerned with, you know, smokestacks and car exhausts and sewage treatment outflows and pesticides and so forth.
Now it's broadened where I think people think of the environment of their everyday life. Right. In a way that is more expansive. But also it is a pathway to community. Establishing community where you have a EWG and we might talk about what's in their drinking water at some point. We might talk about, you know, food additives or whatever.
But an awful lot of our audience, which is 80 plus percent women, come to us through Skin Deep, through our personal care work. And this was not my vision. This was something that had to be explained to me, that this was a way for us to reach out to people and talk to them about something that was important in their everyday life.
Maybe even something, dare I say, women were passionate about. I didn't realize until we started working on it that the sector is largely self regulated by the companies in it. And that's where your integrity comes in because you can pretty much put anything in a personal care product. You can't put anything in a True Botanicals product.
So when you, when you started your journey, Hillary, and a lot of people do have these moments, right? It's starting a family or adding to a family, kids around. Our friend and EWG board member, Michelle Pfeiffer, that's how she got started with Henry Rose and the other is, you know, a bad diagnosis, a bad day at the doctor's office.
Right. What do you think about this as a dimension of your overall concern about the environment that you get to express it this way? Do you think of it in the same way as just, this is part and parcel of wanting to have open space and wanting to have clean air? And right, this is all part of the same thing.
Hillary: A hundred percent. And you can approach it from so many different angles. I get overwhelmed sometimes, especially all the incredible information that you share on clean water. I mean, there's just so much to think about, about pesticides in farming and the percentage of conventional farm products that are tainted with glyphosate.
I mean, that is just shocking to me and depressing. And what I ultimately end up doing is saying, okay, I'm taking one chunk of this pie, which is the beauty industry, and doing what I can to change it. And what's exciting to me is our impact is far reaching. You know, we're not just certifying the safety of our products. We're also incredibly focused on our sourcing. So we source organic regenerative farm ingredients, wild harvest ingredients, whenever possible.
The majority of our ingredients are organic and that's really important. That's us flexing our biggest muscle and saying, this is a way that we can impact human and environmental health.
Absolutely. And then the other thing is, we don't use plastic, except where absolutely necessary, for instance, closures in our packaging, and that has a huge environmental and human health impact.
Ken: Of course.
Hillary: But I will say that I was with one of our manufacturers, and I was reinforcing our standards and being clear about the importance of our ingredients being the ingredients we expect.
So this needs to be organic. And he looked at me at one point and said, “You know, you're the first brand I've worked with who really wants to make products that they would use themselves.” And I thought, wow, that was so shocking to me. I mean, I would never want to make a product that I wouldn't want to use myself, that I wouldn't want my children using, you know, that I wouldn't want future generations using and work as hard, right?
Work is work. It's hard. It's a huge part of our lives. And back to your idea of community, at least I know every day that we're doing the very best we can on behalf of our community, you know, and that just feels so good. It's like taking care of people feels good and it's a privilege, you know? And so from that perspective, I do feel so great about the community aspect of what we're doing because, you know, I feel in the end that will be something that is a really important legacy for me.
Ken: I think you're exactly right. Let's reel back a little bit. You have the inspiration, you make the connection to personal care. What makes you so crazy as to think you can start a personal care product company, an extremely competitive space, and cutthroat costs and pricing and retailing and all the rest?
So what were your first few steps for anyone out there who's thinking about being entrepreneurial? What was your first step and how many people tried to talk you out of it?
Hillary: So many people, I have to answer that question first because it was overwhelming. So many people. The number one thing I heard was, “Well, aren't there enough skincare companies?”
Like you're going to start another skincare company, and what I would always say back is, “Look, there are good restaurants and bad restaurants. A good restaurant is always going to be successful.” And the second thing I did that was really important to me is I just confirmed that the white space that I thought existed really did.
Which is, you know, are there products out there that would offer the efficacy that I'm looking for.
A beautiful experience, and completely, assuredly non toxic. And I looked and looked, and I wasn't finding what I wanted. And so, I guess that's what gave me the confidence. The combination of that and having a really extraordinary experience working at Levi's. You know, I was there for over seven years and I learned a lot.
Ken: A really great company.
Hillary: I think it's a wonderful company. And I just felt like, okay, I see how we've done it with jeans. I guess I can do it with beauty. I mean, it's just really amazing when I look back. I would say probably the skill that I had developed over the years that I relied on the most was knowing what I don't know and seeking out experts to support me.
And there was something about my genuine passion that enabled me to draw a really incredible group of people into this project. And so for instance, you know, Terry Collins, who you know, who I think is one of the most wonderful humans I've ever met, yeah. He agreed to be a science advisor to me and that was so encouraging.
I thought, oh, well, if he wants to be on my team, you know, it's like Mick Jagger wanted to teach my kids guitar or something. That was super encouraging. And I just continued to do that, you know, get the people who really know what they're doing on the team. And I really considered myself more of a conductor, you know, to get it all going.
Ken: That's amazing. That makes all the sense in the world. So just to get a little more granular, so what was the first product and how did you develop it? How did you know it was going to work? And then how did you get it from that seed in your brain into a bottle or a jar?
Hillary: Well, I mean, amazingly, we were literally blending the products ourselves in our little lab in Mill Valley.
Ken: I remember visiting, yeah.
Hillary: That's how we made them. You know, now we work with five exceptional manufacturers all around the country, you know, so it's a very different world.
The quality hasn't changed, but definitely how we get thousands of bottles made has changed. So it was very ground up, you know, bottle by bottle to start
Ken: like a garage startup.
Hillary: Yeah. The beauty version. And I walked by that space in Mel Valley all the time and I just smile. I think, wow, that is really something. So the first product was our Pure Radiance oil. And I had learned about how face oils are incredible moisturizers because of how they absorb, and they can address aging deeper within the skin.
And they're incredible at supporting barrier function. Which, at that time, nobody was really talking about barrier function. But I noticed from personal experience how much my skin changed. And then we got a bunch of people using the face oils and same experience, and what people basically said they heard from people without even saying anything was, “Oh, your skin is glowing.”
Your skin looks radiant. You know, really noticing a difference. And I thought, okay, this stuff works.
Ken: Yeah. There's something going on here. Yeah.
Hillary: There's a resistance to using face oils and moisturizer. Everybody didn't understand that once you put it on, your skin's not greasy, it's absorbed. Actually, your skin feels amazing, it can breathe.
And so, to combat that resistance, we did a clinical trial against the global leading moisturizer, Iconic. So, we did an independent clinical trial with one of the leading labs in the U.S. and we had over 25 participants. They used all the measurement tools, so it was quantitative, not qualitative, and the results were astounding.
I thought they would be good, just knowing my own personal experience and hearing everybody else's. And it was such a leap of faith. I remember what it cost. It cost $40,000 and I just thought, ooh.
Ken: At the time? Wow. That's a big
Hillary: Investment.
Ken: Yeah.
Hillary: Yeah, at the time that was a huge investment. But what happened was, because so many beauty editors were using that specific moisturizer, which I knew, and then they got to see the trial results all of a sudden, everybody was taking the face oil home with them, and then we really started getting attention.
So that was a huge moment for us. That changed the game for True Botanicals.
Ken: Amazing. That's really taking a big leap, but that's sort of what it's about, right?
Look around the environmental space and everywhere. I look. I think well, you know, they're certainly good news, but we need good news because we're in trouble, right, and in personal care where we're kind of in trouble with all of the things that are out there that aren't as healthy as they ought to be, you know, all the different ingredients that EWG Verified program, we, we don't allow and that are in, I'm just going to say lesser brands, brands where the concern is make it cheap and make a lot of it.
Right. As you're seeing the industry evolve now, I mean, how is Botanicals?
Hillary: We're coming up on our 10th anniversary.
Ken: Wow. That's amazing. So over that period, what have you seen in the clean, healthy beauty space? It seems to me it's begun to sink in. Sometimes there's greenwashing that isn't really as healthy and clean as one would like, right, but no one's coming to the market and saying, “hey, this is really cheap.”
This is the best thing about this is you can get a lot of it for not much money, right? The whole conversation has moved, it seems to me, in the direction of health and wellness. Whether or not the products meet that goal is another question, but is that your sense that this is a driving force now?
Hillary: It is absolutely a driving force. And you know, when I started, it was much more based on the precautionary principle. You had proven that those toxins absorb into our bodies, but there hadn't been that many studies that had proven, then, what happens with those toxins in our bodies. And there are so many more studies now linking these toxins to neuro toxicity, you know, looking at examples of where breast tissue has the toxins.
In the tissue, don't use toxic products for a month, the toxins aren't there. I mean, like who wants those toxins in their breast tissue? Nobody. So I feel like research has caught up and it's no longer as much about the precautionary principle. And so, I think people are much more bought into the need to support wellness by using cleaner products, which is so exciting.
And whenever something like that happens, I think, unfortunately, there has been a lot of clean washing and the unfortunate thing that I think follows is disillusionment and the consumers like, well, they threw up their hands and they say, what's clean anyway.
Ken: And so I believe, yeah.
Hillary: Yeah. And so I think one of the most important things that we did very early on is giving the job of clarifying the integrity of our products to organizations whose only job is to have the consumers back and that's what you're doing and you know, that's really important I feel like that's the only way to combat this clean washing and to help the consumer gain the trust that, yes, you can find clean products.
There are brands, you know, made with incredible integrity whether it's food or beauty, so I think things have evolved.
I think there's a little bit of a clean crisis, and we're really on a mission to be a beacon in this sea of clean confusion, you know, and set the new standard in beauty. We're not giving up, but I think if we didn't have access to really strong independent certifications, it would be hard. I think the independent certifications are incredibly important.
Ken: Yeah. We came to that conclusion after, you know, meeting people like you. To be honest, you and, you know, Karen Benkey and Greg Renfrew and so many others, Michelle Pfeiffer, Jessica Alba, all kinds of people who basically were trying to pursue what we were trying to pursue, but they were trying to do it in the private sector.
And when we saw the values aligned, the people like you were trying to do something very different and wanted to know in conversations with us, “How should we go about this? What's the best way to do it? What should we be aware of?”
And our scientists were up to their eyebrows and in what was happening with endocrine disrupting chemicals and neurotoxins and various ranges of carcinogenic substances.
And it, as it came together, we realized, you know, this is something that might really only happen if the private sector, the people in the private sector who have a similar vision, are driving it because we're not going to get government regulation to set the standards that true botanicals meet.
Hillary: Not in our lifetime, that's for sure. No. I mean, given the progress so far, exactly. That's exactly it. And at the same time, you know, if you're not out there as an independent body helping to educate consumers about what is clean and what isn't, I think there will be this misperception that industry is keeping people safe
Ken: When it…
Hillary: just isn't.
Ken: That's for sure. You know, I'm 73, I'm getting older and I'm conscious of my appearance. Obviously I'm conscious that there are more lines and folds and wrinkles than there used to be. The intersection of the values of clean beauty with the conventional cultural norms of beauty where aging is something to be avoided or postponed or hidden.
How do you think about that, Hilary? You know, you're making amazing products that make people feel really good about themselves, and that to me is what clean, healthy beauty should be all about, is you feel good about yourself. Right. And partly you feel good about yourself because you know what you're putting on your skin is healthy.
But what about this intersection that worries me? I worry that sometimes that EWG is contributing to the other more, unfortunately, more dominant cultural frame about beauty. Do you know what I'm getting at? It's really hard to focus on anti-aging without being ageist, right?
Hillary: Yeah, there's so many aspects to it because, you know, as a company, we believe people are beautiful at every age, and at every age, we want to look our best.
And so, in one way, I would say we're leaders. In helping people to look their best at any age, which means we're very focused on making products that work. So in a sense, you could call that anti-aging. However, the term anti-aging has never resonated for me as a cancer survivor when aging is a privilege.
Ken: Oh, there you go.
Hillary: So, we make products that work and they outperform the leading conventional brands that tend to use anti-aging as a focus and tend to see, you know, what happens through the natural aging process as the enemy. Whereas from our perspective, we're really focused on skin wellness, skin health, skin vitality.
And I think that's what everybody's looking for anyway. But at the same time, you know, we're not anti whatever other people want to do. We just know that we get to be a very healthy, positive part of their lives.
Ken: Yeah, and the EWG audience, the last thing they need is mansplaining from me about how they should feel about aging or beauty, you know, but it is important, I think, for us to at least recognize the cultural context that is, you know, oftentimes so destructive of self esteem, self acceptance; self acceptance that comes from this focus on norms of physical beauty that are so artificial.
Health and feeling good about yourself are really the goals here, and then do it in a way that genuinely is healthy.
Hillary: Right.
Ken: That's the golden rule for clean beauty, I think.
Hillary: And for the wellness industry overall, which is nice.
We feel very much a part of that industry, very much a part of supporting optimal health and, you know, whether it's internal or your skin, which is our largest organ, it's all the same. Supporting wellness makes a difference.
Ken: So, speaking of aging and anti-aging and all topics surrounding that, say a little bit about retinol and how you, you know, think about that as an ingredient in personal care products and its reputed benefits for anti-aging and so forth.
Hillary: Retinol is a huge ingredient in the skincare industry. It's one of the number one ingredients dermatologists will recommend to their patients. The other is vitamin C. And so consumers are really out there looking for an effective retinol product and you and I have talked about this so often how, you know, in the end, one of the best ways to change the world is innovate instead of talking to people about ‘don't use these toxic products because this is what they do.’
Retinol typically is preserved with BHT. You know, I could say all those things. Instead, through innovation, we've been able to identify an ingredient, peptilium, that is two times stronger and works two times faster in clinical trials than retinol and then, we put it to the test in our retinol product, our first retinol product that we launched.
It's launched several subsequently and it outperformed one of the leading retinol brands. So the ingredient had been tested, then we tested it in our formula outperformed. And so my message about retinol is, you know, conventional retinol, synthetic retinol is not only not as safe as we'd like it to be. It's also very irritating to the skin. Irritating your skin is not good for your skin. It may seem like, oh, it's working, but irritation disrupts your barrier function. So we have a product that is gentle, safe for pregnancy, outperforms the leading retinol brand.
So I just feel like this kind of innovation is exactly what will take us to a new era of retinol, which is really exciting.
Ken: Yeah. That's so important. And you know, we don't make stuff at EWG, so we're not innovating, but if you look across many of the frontiers of environmental health and wellness, environmental protection, you do see an emphasis now within EWG. I know that's the case, but we're not alone within the environmental community. Let's push the system to invent new ways rather than get the system to respond with, “Oh, we want to have clean beauty. Let's change our marketing from your perspective. “
It's like, “Oh no, that we, this is an investment. We're going to do a 40, 000 clinical trial to get started.” I still can't quite get over that. That's amazing. We're going to invest in that and then we're going to find these frontiers where we can come up with a healthy new way that didn't exist before.
I think of that as akin to EVs and solar panels and technologies. To, like, in the food area to remove the need for toxic chemical pesticides and fertilizers and so forth, organic and regenerative organic, and I just want to point that out that this is one reason why we're excited to be in this space at EWG is because we're not just wagging our finger at bad stuff, we're also excited to be a part of it.
Thank you, that so many companies, and yours is a prime example, are inventing new ways of solving these problems that are healthy and good for the environment.
Hillary: Yeah. I mean, the thing I didn't mention, actually, about the peptilium is it comes from upcycled cranberry pulp. So this ingredient that outperforms synthetic retinol from a lab comes from upcycled cranberry pulp that was not being used before.
And that's just so incredible. And I think one of our biggest jobs and most exciting jobs is for consumers to discover over and over again how amazing nature is, how many healing properties it holds and we've just begun to tap into all the possibilities and it's exciting, and like you said, that kind of innovation will create, I think it will create the most change and have the biggest impact, which, you know, it's a really fun part of our job.
Ken: Yeah. And that's why we're so proud to be working with True Botanicals. Now you mentioned food and I know another passion of yours relates to that, which is you're the founder of the Food Forest Network where you're investing in women who are solving hunger and building a sustainable future by feeding families and empowering women regenerating the earth.
Say a little bit about Food Forest Network.
Hillary: Oh, you're so kind to ask about that. Wow. It's super exciting. I reached a point in my career and, you know, I've talked to so many entrepreneurs where once you've done something like this, you realize, oh, I could do this again.
You know, I had this experience. I understand how it works. I could do it again.
Ken: And I have to do it again.
Hillary: Yeah. Every day I've got to get up and do my Wordle. It's a little bit like that. And so I thought about it and I thought, huh, you know, all these years of work have connected me with some amazing people, and together, we could really have a big impact.
And so I just started floating the idea to, for instance, manufacturers and ingredients that we could potentially bring to manufacturers. Everybody was so excited to support this however they could. And so, we're starting with a pilot project in Kenya, and the focus is helping circles of women plant their own food forests. So that they can number one, solve hunger for their families, and then number two, build income generating crops.
And as part of that effort, we'll have a regeneration hub where they can process the ingredients that they grow. Dehydrating, for instance. I mean, one of the saddest stories we heard this year is that there was an abundant mango crop in the area where we would be working with these circles of women planting food forests, and they had a bumper mango crop, and it was really hot, and all the mango was rotting. And so they were literally burying mango in tires in the dirt, so that they could preserve it for as long as possible.
Well, with our regeneration hub, they would be able to refrigerate, they would be able to dehydrate, and have a much better shot at feeding families, as well as creating income generating crops.
And we're working with UC Davis on the whole thing. For the format that we're creating, they're going to be helping us to evaluate the results. So we're trying to approach this from a really unique perspective, leverage all the information that's out there. We're not going to reinvent the wheel. We're going to have an amazing, we have an amazing, on the ground organization that we're partnering with.
So it's a ground up project with global expertise, supporting it in whatever ways that we can and have an amazing group of women as part of our founder circle who are helping to get this pilot project off the ground, and it's been really rewarding so far to be working on this. It's a privilege.
Ken: Yeah. I'm involved with an organization that works in the Amazon and some of their work involves finding ways to invest and commercialize and provide alternative family income and sustenance with a little creativity and not a huge amount of money or super advanced technologies that can make a huge difference in people's lives.
Hillary: Completely. You know, for instance, the refrigeration system that we're looking at that involves bricks is something MIT has developed. This is a really interesting refrigeration opportunity. So, you know, we're looking at all these existing innovations and they're not expensive, you know, and they can have a huge impact.
Ken: Yeah. Yeah. So tell me what is next for True Botanicals? What's your frontier?
Hillary: So we have an extraordinary group of people working at True Botanicals who are so bought into the mission, who are so excited about everything that we're doing. And really what's next for True Botanicals is more of what we've been doing, which is innovation, you know, continuing to innovate, continuing to help more consumers discover that what they really deserve are incredibly effective products that prioritize the health of people on the planet.
So, you know, we'll continue to grow in the U. S. and then we have lots of interesting ideas relative to global growth and You know, we're just thrilled to be building our community and making incredible products, and we're excited to do more of that going forward.
Ken: Great. Well, we're right there with you, my friend, and thank you again for joining today.
I have lots of episodes. Sometimes they're brought on by bad news. Sometimes they're brought on by outrage, but this is a case where I was so looking forward to talk to you because I knew this episode was prompted by admiration and joy and creativity and all the values that should be at the forefront of environmental thinking.
Hillary: Oh, Ken, thank you so much. Thank you for having me. I just have to say the same back to you. You inspired me at the very beginning of this adventure and you have continued to along the way. Thank you so much for having me and, you know, whenever I get to hear you speak, I just think, thank goodness there are people out there working so hard to keep us safe because, you know, we need you, we need you to continue to push things forward.
So thank you very much for your work and thank you so much for having me.
Ken: Hillary Peterson, thank you for joining us on the show today. I also want to thank you out there for listening. If you'd like to learn more, be sure to check out our show notes for additional links to take a deeper dive into today's discussion.
Make sure to follow our show on Instagram @KenCookspodcast. And if you're interested in learning more about EWG head on over to EWG.org or check out the EWG Instagram account @EnvironmentalWorkingGroup.
If you liked this episode, send it to a friend you think might like it too.
Environmentalism is all about meeting people where they're at. And if you're listening to this, you probably know someone who might be interested in today's episode but doesn't know it yet. My ask is that you send it to that person or as many people as you see fit. Today's episode was produced by the incomparable, incomparable Beth Rowe and Mary Kelly and our show's theme music, ‘Thank You,’ is by Moby.
Thanks again for listening.
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